Council Work Session Meeting

0:12Okay, everyone, we are back. We're not back. We're actually starting a new completely different meeting as a different institution. Welcome to the favorite 10th 2020, 6 City Council Work Session meeting. Our meetings are public and you're welcome to join us in person or by watching from the Council agenda page through Zoom, YouTube or SLC TV.

0:44We hope you continue to join us whichever manner you feel the most comfortable. This is a work session meeting during which there is no public comment. You can join us on February 17th, during our 7 p.m. formal meeting to share your comments. We of course welcome your feedback anytime. You can send us mail at PO Box 145476, Salt Lake City, Utah 8414.

1:07You can also email us at cancel.coments at slc.gov or via 24-hour phone line, phone comment line. You can leave us a message there. It 801535 7654. Comments we receive on agenda topics are shared with council members and posted on our website. You can visit that at slc.gov. Our first agenda item of work session today is an informational item for economic development revolving loan fund.

1:44And it's a review. Join us on the table, Austin Kimmel, Council Policy Analyst who's going to help us with the leader explanation on the item. And then Lorena Rifogenson, Director of Economic Development, Jacob Maxwell, Deputy Director of Economic Development, Peter Makowski, Assistant Director of Economic Development, and Colin Giv's Business Development Division Director.

2:10Thanks, council members. Like you said, economic development is here to provide the council with an overview of the Economic Development Loan Fund or ADLF. The program is designed to support Salt Lake City businesses, create jobs, and promote economic growth in the city by offering loans to local startup and existing businesses.

2:31This presentation will cover how the program works, its performance, and what assistance the department provides when a business may experience hardship or struggles to make its loan payments. We've reserved some time at the end of this presentation for questions. And with that, I will turn it over to Lorena and her team.

2:51All good afternoon. Thank you so much for allowing us to come before you to provide you with an update or on our Economic Development Loan Fund known as the ADLF. This program has existed since the early 90s, and it's a great economic development tool. The supports are small business communities like City across districts.

3:17They're great stories about the businesses who are recipients of these loans, and Colin will actually get into that. Also, as a department, we feel strongly that we have a fiduciary duty to ensure these funds continue and that they're part of the city. In other words, we want to ensure that this tool continues for generations to come.

3:43Therefore, we have some strategies today that Colin will outline to ensure that this tool continues to be a great program for Salt Lake City small businesses. And with that, I will turn the time to Colin Gibbs, who is our division director, and this is Kix first presentation in front of you. Not to put you in the spot.

4:09And Peter Makowski and both of us are here to answer any questions you may have at the end. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Again, my name is Colin Gibbs, Director of Business Development. So I wanted to start today with an overview of the fund, give you a brief history, and then move on to our application process and how we deal with potential defaults and other delinquencies that may occur.

4:43Next slide, please. So the Economic Development Loan Fund started its life in 1991 as the Revolving Loan Fund. In 2014, it was renamed the Economic Development Loan Fund or EDLF. It is designed to promote economic growth in Salt Lake City and business ownership as well. Presently, we have 27 active loans, and we began managing the fund in 2019.

5:17Next slide, please. Here you can see a list of all our borrowers and inception. Looking through the list, you might find maybe your favorite watering hole restaurant or bakery. We have a lot of fabulous borrowers that we work with and that we interact with daily. Next slide, please. So since 2011, we've disbursed 65 loans totaling about $9.5 million.

5:51Of those 65, 44 have paid off. Since 2020, 30 loans have been disbursed, and the total there is $5.2 million in change. Next slide. Here you can see a breakdown of our disbursements and receivables over the last three years. So a year to date, we have disbursed $3.1 million. And as of December of this year, we have received almost $2.9 million.

6:24So as you can see, in the last three years, we are on track to maintaining the revolving nature of this fund and keeping it healthy and moving forward. You'll see listed here on the right, there's an interest allocation line item. That is interest received from our loan loss reserve, which are funds that we set aside.

6:47The to accrue interest to utilize in case we do have an issue with default or delinquency with our current loans. Next slide. So a bit about our application process. We do quarterly openings for application on a first come first serve basis. Currently we are limiting our applicants to 10 applicants per quarter. This allows us to track and manage the funds as they go out.

7:23Also to assess the applicants as they come in and identify if there are any issues that they might have with their application process, if they are actually prepared to go through. And this gives us a good opportunity to aid them in that application process or perhaps provide them with resources to enhance their education.

7:46Loan amounts. So for start up businesses, which we define as less than three years in operation, our maximum amount is $100,000. Taking businesses who have been in business for three years or more can potentially take up to $350,000. And the terms on these loans are seven years. Next slide please. So with our loans, we have an interest rate.

8:20We've been to the prime rate as of December. It was 6.75%. And then by our resolution, the maximum interest rate shall not exceed 8% points above prime. In reality, our average is around 4% plus prime. And we do the rate reductions for borrowers if they meet certain city-wide objectives. That could be business location in a priority area of the city and an RDA project area if they're involved in other city programs like energy efficiency.

9:00Or if the business is owned by a disadvantaged group. That could be women owned, disabled, minorities or low term moderate income or veterans. And then furthermore, our loan committee may adjust the percentage rate up or down 1.5 percentage points depending on what they see fit. Next slide please. So unfortunately, as with business in general, delinquency and default does occur.

9:38It is our goal to maintain the solvency of the business while maintaining our fiduciary responsibility to the taxpayer who provides the loan funds. In doing so, we make every attempt to connect with the borrower to understand their certain situation and to basically build a plan of how we can make restoration of payments or perhaps offer a deferment or alter some other payment plan.

10:09And then we make contact with them throughout the process. Next slide. So as is current practice, we offer a 15 day grace period with our monthly payments. After that date, if we do have some type of delinquency, we will make contact with the borrower to set up some type of plan. If we are unsuccessful, then we will take other measures.

10:38We send out notices, we make phone calls. If there is an issue, then we, as outlined in our administrative rules, we have other tools, small claims court, repossession of collateral or other legal matters. We do everything in our power not to get to that point, but those are avenues we can take if necessary. Next slide.

11:08So we do have tools in our administrative rules. Our department can grant temporary forbearance up to one year. We also have the ability to waive late fees if there is an extenuating circumstance or something that warrants that. The loan committee additionally may offer forbearance or lower payments for anything more than a year.

11:33Also if there is some reamortization of the loan that needs to happen to extend it past the seven years, the loan committee will be in that decision. Our technical assistance program for businesses is another great tool that we can utilize prior to delinquency or after the fact, but I think it is a great tool to mitigate issues before they arise.

11:58Once again, if the borrower is non-responsive or continues to be delinquent, then the city may have to proceed in a legal fashion. Next slide. So our business technical assistance program is a critical skills program that we develop with other third party community organizations. The Swazo Center, SBDC are a few of note.

12:31On a case by case basis, we have required both applicants and borrowers to reach out to one of these outside programs to take the critical skills course, which may include marketing, business strategy, basics of accounting and operations so that they can further enhance their skill set either to fix their cash flow issues, marketing, or perhaps if they are going through the application process and they don't quite know how to write a business plan.

13:05This is a great resource for them to learn those skills.

13:13Another tool is borrow reporting. So we ask borrowers to reach out to us and offer their financial statements on an ongoing basis. This is designed to help build a relationship in regular communication with our borrowers, really build that rapport, help us be seen as someone who can assist them in their business endeavors.

13:41But it also allows us to identify who might be struggling early on so that we might intervene with a technical assistance program or other measure before they get to the local CER default. Next slide. That's all I have. Thank you for having me present for you today. That's ours. I appreciate that. I appreciate the program.

14:05I think it's valuable for the city. A couple from the policy side of the houses. We have defaults that nature of the business. What's your percentage of defaults and recovery rate of the collection rate on those defaults and the lessons learned from those defaults for future programs? I think the... Let's stop by there for the first question.

14:37So currently we have two loans in default of the 27 active loans that we have. We do have 21 that are currently active in good standing. And then we have others that have either paid off or been moved to collections in some former fashion to lower that monthly payment that they're paying and put them on track for success.

15:12Okay. So up to 20... The earlier on the left-hand side of the column there was he had 65 loans, 40 have been paid off. He had 20, so 25 of those loans are still being paid off at this time. They're just going through different... Because they're basically a seven year loan and that's more than seven years. So they're still in the pay off process through different mechanisms.

15:40And as far as the initial investment in the EDLF, we have to add more money or is it just because it's revolving or seems like it's self-funded? It's self-funded. So it's working well and staying really positive as far as plenty of money that might keep on learning. That's correct. I have some member to do again. I just wanted to also add that I need to recognize our Department of Finance.

16:09When we say collections, we're not talking in terms of an outside collection agency, but rather it's internally. So they're doing a fantastic job and they're doing it with a lot of respect for our businesses. So I just wanted to make sure that we're not dealing with anyone that's heavy handed in any way. Thank you very much for saying that because I realize it was inside, but I'm glad you mentioned that.

16:41So appreciate that. How does that default rate compare with other more commercial lenders? I imagine everyone factors in defaults. It's a natural part of lending. Are we on track? Are we head? Go ahead, Peter. So industry standard is around 10% for traditional financing. We're below that. We tend to be a little more flexible and workable with our borrowers to, again, keep us from going into those default areas, but we do have a very low default rate.

17:26I love that. When was the last time we evaluated those amounts? Is $100,000 what it used to be for commercial ovens in restaurants? I have a friend opening a restaurant and it's just expensive. So are we still able to really have the impact that we used to or do we need to reevaluate those amounts and make them more commensurate with the inflationary pressures that our entrepreneurs are experiencing?

17:55If I could add and then I would say it would be probably a good time for us to do some research and analysis. You're absolutely right, Council Member Petro, that cost to just put a kitchen in is they keep going up? One commercial thing was $100,000. Yes, completely. I would say right now because of the economy and the state of the economy, we probably need to do the research and then consider if we want to increase that because we don't want business owners to borrow more money and then not be able to pay it back.

18:39And restaurants right now are hurting. So that's we're trying to play that fine balance of being supportive and at the same time ensuring that they're only borrowing what they need. Thank you. So just two quick future requests for data points, not an emergency for today. One is I would love to know the average length of time that businesses have been in business here in Salt Lake that have been recipients of the fund and just how that compares and contrasts with the traditional turnover that we see in the city.

19:20To me, this is one of the key parts of this solution is the fact that it's helping people stay here in the city. And I just think it would be a helpful data point to be able to share more broadly in terms of the benefits of the program. The second one that I would be interested in is more so related to if they were borrowing at a traditional cost versus the cost of the loan offered by the city.

19:49Like what is that aggregate savings across the entire, like the history of the program. And I appreciate that rate changes. So I'm not looking for like a month by month analysis. But even if we could do like averaged on an individual fiscal year, like what was the rate in a business setting versus what is the rate being offered by Salt Lake City.

20:10And how much does that save our local businesses? To me, again, that's something to promote as an outcome of a city program that speaks to the efforts that are being made by your team to be able to support small business in the area. Okay. We're happy to bring that back. Thank you. That's been a cool thing. A couple questions.

20:37I'm curious if you've ever considered refinancing as a permissible use of these funds. And the reason I bring it up is we've seen some stories in our city of historic entities, historic restaurants in our neighborhoods that have felt crushed under the weight of loans they've either taken on or credit card debt of various kinds.

21:02And I'm wondering, would you ever explore refinancing as a permissible use of this capital? I would say the answer to the short answer to that is yes. We have looked at it. We probably need to do additional research. And I think mainly right now what we're seeing, because at one point, our loans were 11%, just even recently within the last two years.

21:31And because of that interest rate being so high, we're a lender of last resort. Therefore, we're not competing with financial institutions. And yet, maybe 11% would have been better than 29%. So I think we probably need to look at it. I will tell you that in talking to other entities that do provide, so also provides micro loans, $25,000, $25,000.

21:58A lot of entities shy away from doing that, just because it's very risky. However, we're happy to look at it and bring it back so you can consider it. Thank you. And then as a connected to that, I'm wondering as you think about the citywide or economic development objectives, and I think these are really important objectives to prioritize.

22:23If there's ever, you've ever considered additional points or scoring an application more favorably if it's a historic business. I'm thinking about some of our historic entities that have been around 10, 15, 20 years, and they've been critical to neighborhoods, but now they're just feeling the squeeze at so many other small businesses are feeling right now.

22:45I don't think we have. But I think that's something that can be considered. And when we come back and present on the other issues, we can do that. We can definitely bring that back. I want to first thank you and your team for the incredible amount of work that you guys do to service these loans and help the process of the applications.

23:09And really, the impact is huge. And I felt like I said that a lot today, but the programs and the things that we've been exposed today were meaningful and make a big difference in our city. And the small businesses are the blood of our city. It really is key to the success of what we're doing here. So I really do appreciate DLF and what it is doing.

23:38One of the questions I have and it usually is not, and I'm going to preface it like this, is usually not to ask your department to do more with the same amount of money. So I'm seeking some advice from your experience, your team's experience. There are areas of our city that people have been having a hard time renting.

24:04Yes. Right? Lots of new spaces that we know that are going to be needed. But at the moment, they can not be penciled out. For multiple reasons. Maybe the finishes, like Council Member Pietro mentioned, to a kitchen is very expensive. But otherwise, the analysis will say that a restaurant will kill it. But no one has the money to make that happen.

24:33Or there's a need for a main street for some key restaurants or key businesses and some other blocks to bring a little more life to the area. Because the department considers some more targeted, and I will also throw in North Temple in there because I'm sure that all of us have for South, like Main Street, other pieces of the city that we feel very strongly about.

25:01But empty storefronts are a struggle. And I'm not that we need to solve all the problems of the city. Those the owners of the property also need to come play ball if they want really interested in renting those spaces. So they just want to sit on the land. But I would love to pick your brain and your departments about what this could look like.

25:30That's an excellent, excellent question. I, you know, often small businesses, you know, then maybe doing something from home eventually, you know, maybe they have a food truck. And then eventually they want to move to a location. One of the things that we did, and you mentioned North Temple, Council Member Puig, and you both participated, and we appreciate it your time on the North Temple Economic Action Plan.

26:00One of the recommendations was to see if the Community Investment Act could become a master lease holder. They were at the table with us, and I think they're going to be launching that program. Because if, you know, they're not here, so I also want to be respectful to the fact that they're not here. And yet I think that was one of the solutions that came out of that study.

26:28Basically if the CRA, and jumping at any point, Peter, if they're the master lease holder, and there'll be funds available for the space. So I think that conversation needs to continue. I think what I'm seeing in some of the projects that are community and neighborhoods, they're including a space for small businesses.

26:55And that has to continue because that is definitely a need. The small businesses cannot afford, often what your commercial real estate is charging right now. Peter, do you have anything else you want to add? Not much to add you actually. I described that perfectly. But yeah, we've been in discussions with the CRA about possible programs to offset these costs, and continue those conversations.

27:26And we agree that is a massive need in the city. I think I remember one of the trips that we did to, I believe it was Cincinnati, but I'm not remembering correctly, it might be the different city. This was one of the ideas that came from, and we've been talking a lot, CRA about this. But ultimately from the loan perspective, could the department maybe hyper focus on a specific area of the city?

27:56Know that this is first come first serve, but I wonder if there is a need for a more hyper targeting just to make some of that more available in a specific area to help flourish some of these businesses. Certainly this is an administrative piece, but I wonder if there is some interest on that, especially for areas like that we are always trying to inject life.

28:20Yes. So will the historic main street that we have? I have to say that the short answer is yes, we want to do more. One of the things that we've done as a team is ensure that we join, we're part of some of the groups like the River District, Jake serves on that board, neighbor works, he serves, I believe calling you serve on that board.

28:48Peter used to serve on that board before. So we try to make sure that we are going to the business community and we're going to them in their space. And often what we do is ask if we can come and present. And it has to, our work has to be done where business notes are located. We can't expect them to come to us. We have to go to them.

29:17Thank you for that. I really like I started their comment. Thank you and your team for the work that you guys do. I'm very excited to see more of it, which that's a conversation for a later meeting. So thank you for your time. Thank you so much. I want to make sure that I didn't miss representing anything in terms of the CRA because they've done a great work, you know, working with us.

29:43I appreciate bringing that up because that's a good question. We've been working with them a long time. You have to. So I'm excited to hear when they're ready for that. Okay. Thank you so much. Council members, I'm going to move some of the items around. I'm going to go to item number two instead. This is to discuss an ordinance for the temporary street closure for Temple Square for 2027 Temple Reopening at the table.

30:12At the table, Nick Tarver, Council Deputy Director will join us and Tammy Hunsaker, Director of Community and Neighborhoods will join us. Juan Bessarra from the Eldest Church will be available for any questions if those are here. Okay. Nick, your time. I'll turn the time quickly over to Tammy to introduce it. But just to let you know that this is obviously an item of high interest for lots of constituents.

30:41The Council Office has already received a lot of emails asking questions. So we're keeping track of that. We will be coordinating closely with the Administration on the project page where we can have a FAQ list so that people can go and get information on this since it will be a great opportunity and have some significant disruptions for a while.

31:01Tammy. Thank you, Nick. Good afternoon. As Nick mentioned, in consultation with the City's Transportation Division, police and fire, we have been evaluating a request from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to temporary closed portions of a few different downtown streets to support the Temple Reopening Celebration.

31:24We have been collaborating closely, not only with internal city divisions, but also with UDOT and UTA to ensure that the event is planned in a successful way as far as transportation flow goes. The streets that would be fully closed include North Temple from Main Street to West Temple, West Temple from North Temple to South Temple.

31:47There would be partial lane closures on South Temple from Main Street to West Temple. The bustling North Temple from 200 West to West Temple, all of the Eastbound lanes and West Temple from 200 North to North Temple, one Northbound lane. So there should be a map that can be displayed that will depict these proposed street closures.

32:11On the map, the areas highlighted in red would actually be closed off for exclusive use for the event. It would still be open to the public, but it would be fenced off and there would be secured checkpoints for access. So the city would execute a lease of the right of way for the areas outlined in red. And then there would be traffic control closures for the areas outlined in yellow with barrels traffic control barricades.

32:43The closures would last between the outside dates would be March 2027 through October 2027. The dates might be a little bit shorter than that. The church is still working out the final dates of the closure and would need some set up time and planning time. But the approval before you has the maximum dates of the beginning of March through the end of October.

33:09The event is expected to bring millions of visitors to Salt Lake City. The church is estimating between 22,000 and 29,000 people per day. So it's pretty much the equivalent of general conference every day for about six months. So as you can imagine, this will have impacts with crowd control and safety for our downtown.

33:32So there is actually a state statute that requires that the city council adopt an ordinance approving any street closure for non-construction purposes. And there are noticing requirements and a public hearing that must go along with that city council action. So that is what is being considered before the city council now.

33:52So the state statute points to safety purposes as a valid reason for a municipality to close right of way. And we believe that it is necessary to manage heavy crowds, reduce traffic congestion and protect the safety of visitors and pedestrians within the downtown area. So the administration believes that this is a valid public safety consideration before you.

34:20The city has closed streets before Operation Rio Grande was one of them. The 2002 Olympics was another large event that the city had that was similar to this. So with the closure, there are several city ordinances that are triggered. The fenced area that is outlined in red that would have a fence for the event closure that would be facilitated through the execution of a lease through the real estate services division within CAN.

34:53And so there would be typical lease revenue for the fair market value for the use of city owned property. And then there would also be traffic control permits and fees collected for bag meters that would also be assessed. So we're estimating it would be based on the next year's consolidated fee schedule. But we're estimating the revenue that would come to the city to the general fund would be around 2.3 million for these closures.

35:19So it would be the standard CFS fees and fair market value for use of the property. We are obviously very concerned about traffic flow and pedestrian safety. So along we've been collaborating really well with the church and with UDOT and UTA. So with these closures we're looking to our transportation partners and the church to work with us and to do detour signage, develop a communication plan to notify the public of closures and to where alternate routes will be working with UDOT to potentially even re-time signals on other routes to make traffic flow better.

36:04The church is working with UTA on transit access. So we are and it's still in the beginning phases because the event is in 2027. So it's a ways off but we will continue to work with partners and the church to make the impacts to transportation as minimal as possible. So I believe there's a public hearing next week. Oh, March 10th.

36:30March 10th. And I'd be happy to ask answering questions you have. We also have Lynn Jacobson, City's new transportation division director here and Logan Hunt. So I think there may be some questions from the council members. Maybe let's try to be as efficient as possible if we can frame the questions to say that we have city staff first.

36:59Maybe if possible to try to like I'm looking at you now. So then we make it the most efficient and then we can invite our guests here to help us out with all the questions they may arise. And I should mention we also have a representative from the church here and I also feel to mention that we've the church has also been collaborating with police and fire.

37:20So there will be a public safety plan that goes along with the event. That's awesome. I'm going to have to put on some of them to award. Okay. So I'm excited about this as the council member whose area Temple Square is in or whose district is the top tourist destination in Utah. And I love having it in my district and I'm really excited about the opportunities for 2027.

37:56I live just seven blocks away from Temple Square and I drive past it every day whether I'm going to work or the grocery store or to City Hall. So I'm really familiar with the existing traffic problems and what the closures would mean for me and my neighbors. A lot of them have already reached out to me including several people who made sure to point out that they are members of the LDS church encouraging me to vote against it.

38:30I understand where those concerns are coming from because the neighborhood has been at the center of a lot of traffic and construction snarls already and where we've got some that are just starting. But at the same time from a public safety standpoint I don't see how any downtown city block could accommodate a stream of 22,000 visitors a day for six months without closures.

38:57So my questions I'm trying to frame my questions within those boundaries that have come mostly from residents. But I am really looking forward to reopening this uniquely Salt Lake landmark. So the first one is in a major emergency in the area like Capitol Hill, how would the road closures impact the residents ability to either evacuate the area or to have emergency responders come into the area?

39:39That is a great question. I think and if this already hasn't been done I think we can talk to police and fire about not only planning for an emergency within the event area but also the surrounding neighborhoods. I don't want to speak for police and fire and I haven't been in those discussions but police and fire from my understanding do feel that the closures will actually help facilitate emergency preparedness for accommodating this many people in the downtown area for that extended period of time.

40:16So I know they're thinking critically about access to the event and emergency services accessing the event and managing the event. So I can reach out to them and ask about access to the surrounding neighborhoods because I think that definitely will be part of the conversation between police fire and our own transportation division and you dot ensuring that there will be clear access routes.

40:47One of the priorities is for all parties involved is to have detour routes and the free flow traffic routes clearly available and noticed to the public. Like I said we're even looking at changing U-Dots like traffic and traffic timing of signals to facilitate the throughput of corridors that we're trying to reroute people to in a more efficient manner.

41:18So I don't have a complete answer for you right now but that definitely should be a consideration as we plan emergency management and traffic flow moving forward. That's fine and I'm not I should say too for any of these I'm not expecting a complete answer at this point. I just more kind of want to get the questions out there so that you know what I'm hearing the most.

41:41And council member this is helpful because we've already started an FAQ that is on our website and we can definitely add these questions and provide more thorough answers to the public. Great. Another one is that just that there's already some choke points in there for traffic. And there's also some I think some of the scarier pedestrian interactions on some of those like the turns from State Street on to South Temple.

42:18You know I drive that intersection a couple times a week. I feel like I see multiple near misses. So I'm just worried about making sure that those crosswalks that are like adjacent to the closures because I assume there's going to be a lot more people coming through those crosswalks as well. Want to make sure that they are also safe.

42:42Okay. West High. So all the students that live in the avenues that go to West they're already kind of having to compete with all of the traffic coming from Davis County to downtown and to the university. I wonder if there's going to be you know how are we going to route those individuals and make sure that we can clearly communicate that to students and parents like this is the preferred route that we would like you to take to get to West High.

43:21Council member if you want some thoughts from Lynn Jacobs because he's now the director but he's been the city's traffic engineer for quite some time. So I don't know if you have any thoughts Lynn. And I should add that as we've been coordinating with the church and transportation partners we've also been looking at private development projects that are planned to be occurring around that time frame like SEG and other projects that could impact the right of way.

43:52So we're trying to look at the status of the situation from several different fronts including the private development but do you have any thoughts on South Temple State Street or West High. Yeah absolutely if you don't mind me sharing. Obviously this is still all very much up in the air it's about a year away from now.

44:11We've been working closely the church hired an engineering consultant to help us look at a lot of this and then UDOT UT&S we've been meeting regularly to try to figure out how to make all this work. And we still have details to work through but we're getting some pretty good traction on some ideas. Some of the existing choke points that you mentioned like it's South Temple and State Street I mean there's a pretty big queue that backs up all the way to the round about.

44:34It's definitely been on our radar with UDOT we're talking about how to fix that not only for this event but permanently. Yeah and we have some good ideas there. Okay good I mean that's one thing that I am really worried about because so many people cut through that are coming you know come down State Street go through the roundabout and I feel like the what's going to happen is people from the avenues are going to go up State Street and try to turn on to like 2nd North and there's like that is just not an intersection where you want people to turn.

45:09No it is not. And they've completely agreed. If one person tries to do it and they I just feel like that entire thing is going to be kind of a huge problem. So I don't know what the preferred route is but if we can communicate that and I'll help communicate that as much as I can too. That goes into my next question which is that West High is you know they've started construction we're going to be in in the thick of it.

45:39Do we know if if West High's construction is anticipating any road closures or their construction that would be the same kind of this one. They are I've got a meeting set up with them to discuss that already but that's a really good comment. I think your concerns about West High students getting there is incredibly valid.

45:58It's really helpful and this is actually really good timing for us because we're working through all this with the team and I think Council Member if you can continue to provide us concerns like this it will really help us to know how to message who to message to how to address all these issues. Similarly do we know if there's going to be any lane closures for the construction happening at Delta Center and Third West and the culture and convention district that would also be simultaneous to this.

46:30Also on our radar we've been meeting with Yudad about that and Yudad is very aware of this pending closure and what it impacted may have on their ability to use North Temple or West Temple or South Temple is detour routes during their construction project and so definitely part of the conversation we're all having together.

46:49West High's construction as well is on our radar. Okay and then biking I hope we'll have like we put a lot of investment in bike lanes on North and South Temple. I want to make sure that when we're detouring traffic that there's a safe bike option because I think we've encouraged people to bike through that area and I don't want to make it unsafe for them for six months.

47:20I don't think we'll allow biking on North Temple during this time but South Temple should still be able to accommodate bike lanes. There shows a temporary closure of the lane on South Temple. It's the trap right lane and the bike lanes next to it so we should be able to keep bikes safe on South Temple. Okay sorry I only have two more questions.

47:39Yep keep going. The parking so when it's a general conference I said I mentioned I live seven blocks away the parking gets all the way to my house so I'm just worried about how you know it's we the neighborhood finds a way to get through those weekends but it's going to be six months of that. I just want to make sure that residents parking will be prioritized because most of these houses in this area don't have dedicated driveways so they rely on off street or they rely on on street parking.

48:19I want to make sure people can get in and out of their houses. Council member one point on that to reduce the number of cars coming downtown the church is offering free UTA transit passes for celebration ticket holders and also free transit for employees. Great. And I would add that the church is looking at some really great ideas in terms of how to manage the number of people coming in.

48:44They haven't finalized those details yet so we're not ready to share them but they have some really great plans in place that they'll be ready to share in time. Yeah and I really appreciate that. I know that that every general conference the church really encourages people to to take public transit or to ride share those efforts are very much appreciated and I assumed that that was part of the plan as well but I just wanted to raise the parking issue and then my last one is connected to that with existing transit routes.

49:17What do you do we know yet where we're going to. We're still working on those details as well but we absolutely UT is aware of the closure and they're they're planning those detour routes. So that's that's in the works for one last point on parking we've connected with urban services division and parking compliance and they're ready to provide a little more additional enforcement to that area during the event just just to help.

49:38Yeah and maybe like I don't know if we need additional signage or things like that too. We'll definitely be willing to look at that. So anyway overall though you know we want to welcome everybody and I want to make sure that we're not you know walling off like other parts of the city because while we're expecting a lot of folks coming you know for the faithful who are coming we also want to keep downtown open we're we're going to have restaurants reopening on Main Street that we helped bring back.

50:15There might not be a lot of crossover on the clientele there but you know maybe more than we know but we want to make sure it's welcoming for everybody. So thank you I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you to the church team for being here as well it's good to see you both. Council Member Young. Thank you. I just want to say I am the first to have empathy for long term construction in key business areas as it exists and we experience for 2100 South and Sugar House.

50:53I can also say that the commitment of the city to being a part of this celebration and being excited about the fact that we're not just welcoming individuals from across the state and across our sister states but really you know from all parts of the world to be able to celebrate like this opportunity I just think is such an amazing opportunity and you know it certainly is going to come with its pressure points and I think you know being here today and having the conversation ahead of time about what are the street closures what are the mitigation strategies what are the safety needs and how we're doing that in partnership and as part of an ongoing communication and dialogue to me gives me a lot of faith

51:42in the efforts on all the haves to be able to make this a successful event. I certainly want to see it be successful and I think that the success is not just in celebration of this monumental achievement but also has a real opportunity to benefit our businesses in Salt Lake City and so I just wanted to express that optimism as part of this process and appreciation for all parties involved in terms of trying to be proactive about creating a solution that is going to work best for everyone.

52:16That's what we're doing. Thank you and appreciate Council Member Wharton's questions because I'm kind of just jumping on top of that Council Member Wharton talked about crosswalks adjacent to the North Temple Square but I'm thinking of just you know for the an hour before jazz games 1700 fans and there's a lot of intersections that are impacted.

52:39This is these fans these 22,000 are not going into a building and leaving three hours later they're going into an area and they're hanging out there and more people coming in and so these intersections are always going to be dangerous and safety hazards so the police need to look at it more than just one or two blocks but a crossway and also in the transportation sound house maybe it's more for UTA and I know you probably already talked about this thank you for the passes that's on the awesome what about passes for the additional people that now need to take a bus or tracks because they just can't get it cross town with a car.

53:19Additional buses too and official dust routes shuttle vans from wherever they're parked before you know they're parking out at Fair Park and they're driving in so that we restrict the number of cars in the downtown area to those that are just maybe live there and not those who are coming to visit the temple because the temple area if you just for the people the cars should just be for the locals so almost like hey this is a no drive zone unless you are a emergency or a resident and everybody else you have to pay a hefty fine or you park everywhere and we'll get you a golf cart so look at more than just having people park in the streets or park and Chris in Ava's neighborhood or even the ballpark

54:08so please take a talk of that thanks. So I have reverse flow concerns from council member Wharton so a large portion of our middle schoolers are districted to Bryant Middle School meaning that we will go from 500 600 north to south temple and 800 east. My own son did it and I made that track and even just with the construction traffic.

54:39North temple was impassable at the time south temple is not a practical road if you're trying to move more than a block every 20 minutes. First south does not go all the way through second south was under construction has been reduced to one lane. Third south has been reduced by bike lanes. Fourth south is the first one that is our only exit option until 13 south when we're coming from the north on the highway and is a main thoroughfare which last time I checked we're expecting some construction on 400 south as well.

55:09Getting down to 600 south which would be the most logical one will be free flowing but I have to go down to 600 south from 700 north to get to south temple and 800 east if my kid is sick if I am a shift worker who only has an hour to go see my kids band concert we're asking for a lot of sacrifices. Now these are summer months so it's not going to be applicable to everyone but I do have a reverse concern.

55:35Additionally I think my people will I do this so I'm pretty sure they do. We go up to the capital and then down through state and when state gets too busy we like to go down main and cut across. I think we should have lights on state or we should actually like put some temporary medians so people can't turn. We are asking for all sorts of confusion but we either decide that state stays a straight thoroughfare from the roundabout all the way down or we put temporary lights there.

56:06I'm really really concerned about that route but I'll talk to the church later about ways to support my community. I have a lot of people who work at the hospitals in support roles. They don't have dedicated parking and they're not the surgeons as you might imagine Rose Park isn't the home of the surgeons. We're the home of the people who check you in and make sure things are sanitary.

56:31I love that I live in Salt Lake City because this unique part of American history is really fantastic and it makes us distinctive. I love that. I am not trying to denigrate but I also want to make sure that my neighbors who are blue collar who are already under stress who already are making great sacrifices because of the east west divisions don't have further exacerbation of those issues.

56:53So my biggest concern is state street and just east west connectivity like literally fourth south if it's not under construction or sixth south that's a lot of miles we're asking people to put on their cars. That's a lot of extra gas and time we're asking people to add to their day to navigate basic routes. I have ideas for support that I'll propose to the church because you're unique position for that.

57:22But I would like for us as we consider flow to consider that. I also want to advocate and I'm going to abjectly ask for it. I think that marmalade and capital hill should be nothing but permitted parking for this whole time. I love the people who are coming but our priority has to be our constituents at some point because it's six months.

57:40So I'm going to put that on the record. Thank you. Yes, Councillor Bumworton. Sorry, I'm going to come back to me. I know I took a long time but thank you. I appreciate that and I appreciate the excitement too. I want to make sure that I'm showing that excitement along with that stress. But yeah, and I'm also open to any other creative solutions we can come up with.

58:05Maybe some zip lines across City Creek Canyon or maybe it's just a complaint, a 20 per hour complaint line. Me and Juan take turns fielding those calls. But anything that I can do to help support this and make sure it's a success, I'm committed to doing. And so thank you again for being here. Thank you. We'll cut out, I just want to make sure that everybody got their questions.

58:36And you know, one of the, you know, you make me think about this, Councillor Bumworton, about the public utilities work. You know, the last thing I want is some of those gas pipes popping up or some other infrastructure, maybe city-wise or other utility work popping up any place near this or like that could also interrupt the flow traffic on top of that because that will exacerbate all the problems that we may see while we're trying to like mitigate it.

59:06By the way, I counted how many blocks, how far away I live from Temple Square and it's eight blocks. So I, you know, I'm a block away from it too. I drive by this area a lot and I know some of the challenges as far as flow goes and especially when there are events. I would love to, you know, to ask some questions directly to the representatives from the Church of Jesus Christ of the Day Science.

59:35And maybe if any of you have any other questions we can ask directly. And is that okay? One of you or both of you or, you know, welcome to the audience at the table. Any council members, is there any questions so far? And I'm going to ask a few questions and maybe like maybe you guys want to, do you guys have a presentation or anything that you want to start with?

1:00:04Yes, we'll name to the, for the record. My name is Marty Stevens. I'm the Director of Government Relations for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. One was Sarah and I worked together. He's the Director of Community Relations in our department. We were told that we didn't need to have a presentation for this meeting.

1:00:26We have a few comments that I think might be helpful but if you, I don't know how you are time wise or if you just want to do specific questions. Those brief comments might actually answer some of those questions. Okay. Let me just share a couple of things with you quickly that I think will be of help. Let me just do it this way.

1:00:55We're very excited about this. It's been 130 years since the public has been able to go into the Salt Lake Temple. It was dedicated in 1893. When we started this process, we didn't want the church to just come and say, here's the plan. So we've got with the city, we've been working with Tammy and the mayor and the mayor's team and the Chief of Police and Chief Leib in the Fire Department with UDOT, with UTA.

1:01:21And I think this is a, as Tammy has mentioned, this is the plan that we've worked on to come up with together that solves the problems. A number of things in this plan are not things we asked for but the city felt like these were more important, as important as some of the things we did ask for. So I want to tell you two or three things that the church has committed to do to show good willingness.

1:01:45One was mentioned that we're going to be leasing these roads under the standard contract. We think that the number will be north of 2.3 million that will be paying the city during this period. We've got a lot of information to that. We've met with the police chief and they're working on estimates of what it's going to cost to provide additional protection during this period.

1:02:04And the churches agreed to pay for that, the cost of that additional protection as well. So that wouldn't be any additional cost to the city. We talked about transportation issues, we're concerned about that as well. We have a plan that we're working on implementing. Right now most of our employees work eight to five.

1:02:21We have about 10,000 people downtown. We're working on a plan which would have a 7 to, what would that be, 7 to 4, 8 to 5, and a 9 to 6 phase. So all the traffic isn't coming downtown at the same time that it's going to be spaced out during the day. We are going to provide free transit for all of our people during this period.

1:02:43So for front runner tracks and the bus service, it encourages many of them to ride that as possible. We also are going to be doing some remote work. We're trying to get up to, we haven't tied this number down so don't hold me to this yet. We're trying to get up to about 25% of that number off campus during that period.

1:03:03And then finally, we have leased a piece of property out on North Temple that we're going to make a park and ride. And we're going to have bus service that will be going from that parking lot up to the area, the map's not still up there, but it's the area that would be on the west side of the parcel. And they're very nice buses.

1:03:25There's aren't going to be school buses. They're going to be nice white wrapped buses and they'll be happening frequently so people will want to use those. And it will be very easy for people to just get off the freeway to go down to that park and ride a lot and then take the bus into downtown. It'll just come up to North Temple and drop them off right about 2nd west as we'll turn into that area.

1:03:46And then they'll be able to pick it up there to leave and the main entrance will be right there. We want to be good neighbors in this. We plan to have a special open house before the public open house for all of the neighbors that have been impacted by these years of construction. I actually live 2 blocks from Temple Square.

1:04:05I'm one of those. Chris is my council member. We live in Zion Summit and we love a living downtown. But the church is happy to work with the city in any way we can to make this a fun event. It's going to bring, as you can understand, millions of dollars of revenue to downtown businesses. And it's going to bring great publicity for the city as they people have a chance to experience Salt Lake in a different light.

1:04:32So happy to answer any questions that you might have. Thank you. You answered several of them already. So the spacing out of the hours, I think that is the question because if it happens, if it's every day all the time, like when General Conference finishes, we might see riots from our neighbors. None of us want to see any of that.

1:04:59So I'm glad that you are thinking about it ahead of time and that you are engaging with all these partners. I was personally interested in enough flow in and out so that helps reassure the neighbors that we're going to have a good plan. A few years ago, we had the NBA All-Stars event in Salt Lake and the UTA was able to negotiate a partnership with the organizers for zero fair days from UTA.

1:05:36And if the NBA can do it, I believe we can do something similar here too, where we can actually encourage people by removing that barrier. When you mentioned that park and ride plan, hopefully many of them park over there and take tracks. That will win-win too also for your system. So I hope that you look at that route as well.

1:06:08I think that will be a win-win, not only for those that are attending the event, which we personally, and it was shared here, I'm committed personally to make sure there's a lot of work that I'm excited for myself. But this could be a meaningful thing for probably thousands of people across the state as well, which I think in some ways is a celebration of the history of the state.

1:06:53And I think that could be an impact across the board, not only for those that are making it to the temple opening. And similarly to hopefully a partnership with the UTA, we have put quite a bit of investment over the several few years on biking and trails in our city that connect and keep our families here, right? That we can see kids and families riding bikes and getting to work or going to school safely in our streets, which I think is critical infrastructure for this event as well.

1:07:35So hopefully while you are planning this event, which is not an easy task, I am very aware. It seems like it's, I don't know how you do it, but I'm excited to be part of that. That you encourage also people to take advantage of this infrastructure. And that there are other partners out there, bike organizations that could potentially be good partners on this and help some visitors use the infrastructure that we have built.

1:08:07That is, it might not be for everyone, but for some people it might actually be fantastic. Certainly I like to take bikes to explore new cities myself. And we have great infrastructure to get to this site and potentially could be a multi-model way of getting to it, so including the bike and the trails that we have invested so much over the last few years.

1:08:37I would like to highlight also that those buses, hopefully we can get as sustainable as possible on them. Unfortunately we showed some bad air days here and as doable as possible, I know that that may not be enough of them available, but it will make a big difference to a lot of our neighbors that live in the area. I'm encouraged by the partnership, I'm encouraged by the celebration and how many people are on the table.

1:09:11And also we would like to see potentially economic development in our city and the downtown alliance as well involved in it. They are invested heavily on the success of the city and the success of the small business owners that are really thriving and really fighting every day to make a living and to bring uniqueness to our city and through food and other amenities.

1:09:40So I would love any support that this partnership could bring to the table. That's D. Brewer's organization. We actually have been meeting with D and we have another meeting next week with him, so we're trying to make sure that stays coordinated. Again, those are my thoughts. Certainly there's going to be cost associated for the city, so this fee certainly helps the enforcement pieces and all the other staff time that we're going to, you know, this is, we really need it to make sure that we can make good on the promises that we are building together and the flow.

1:10:21The last thing I almost forgot, I'm hoping there's going to be a lot of questions from neighbors that we haven't even thought about. For example, people with reduced mobility that may live in the area that for us, by the way, those blocks that, you know, for fathers built are huge, some of the largest ones in the nation, might not be easy for them to move around.

1:10:51Things like that is like what are we going to do to accommodate those neighbors with reduced mobility that may actually be a simple thing that we can accomplish. I would love to see if there is a way of receiving feedback, a way that the community can send us their thoughts and maybe some great ideas of, you know, things that we didn't think about.

1:11:14I know that you guys are working as good neighbors and I'm sure that there is good problems to solve there and we can do them together. So we won't, can I just mention one other thing then? We want to be good neighbors and we don't want this, this is the church's open house celebration we're calling it. We don't want this to cost the city anything.

1:11:39So as we work through this, if we find there additional costs that are going to be born by the city because of the celebration, we're happy to have further discussions about that. We want to be good neighbors. I'll just mention two other things. The, well, I took notes on clean buses and some of these other things that you've noticed.

1:11:58The perimeter that we're going to put is going to be a perimeter that can be opened. So there'll be access for police and fire in case any of that is needed during that time period so it's not going to be a permanent closure area. There'll be access and we've been working with your transportation people on that. Then the other thing that you'll notice is it's going to have a secure perimeter that will allow us to do metal detectors or their high speed ones.

1:12:23They're not the traditional ones like it at the airport. These are really high grade ones where people can walk through, we won't have to check bags and those kind of things unless they're bringing a suitcase or something. But we won't have to check bags. They'll be able to come in but once they're in the perimeter, we now don't have to do security for them to go into every single building.

1:12:40And when this opens, we'll also be opening the Lion House, the Beehive House, two new visitor centers, it's one visitor center but there's two new pavilions there. The Relief Society Building is going to be remodeled and the Family Search Library. So we expect that there's going to be a lot of people spending a lot of time on Temple Square.

1:12:57And of course, you should have all received a save the date for the Salt Lake Temple Square Open House that's coming up this April. We'd like to invite you to come in. The visitor center, sorry. So we don't want that to overshadow the Temple itself but we do want to invite and make sure that people have access to that and begin kind of the momentum moving towards April of 2027.

1:13:25Thank you so much. Governor Redouin. Thank you for all the work and the planning and stuff. Now, you think of this as this is not just Salt Lake City, the Capital City and the church. This is a state. This is not just a Utah event. This is an international event. I mean, there's going to be people here from across the globe.

1:13:45And so I have to assume that you're coordinating different events and different things with the state on itself. I mean, the UTA gets its funding, the buses from the state. We may need additional state capital, additional security measures, transportation measures, street measures that really requires the state to be involved in the coordination.

1:14:12So I would really appreciate, you know, when you have the state involved there, make sure that we're also part of that discussion. But I'm just assuming that you're already talking to state on different elements of costs and different elements of safety and transportation. Thank you, Councilman. That's a very important point.

1:14:30We've met with the governor, with the speaker, the president, the minority leader in the House and the Senate. We've also met with representative Daily Provost who covers this area and Senator Plum, who's the senator for this area. We've tried to reach out to all of the elected officials so that they're aware of the plan and what we're doing.

1:14:47We're getting their input. Thank you, so, because I'm Burbitra. Hello. Good to see you. You're my hometown organization is amazing. I always tell people that if everyone were LDS, the way my Westside neighbors were LDS, we would all be LDS. They are. They are a testament to what you all do as a community. I would really love it if we could ask you to deepen your investment with them so that they could be a support to our community.

1:15:18I would love to work with them on creating rideshare opportunities and informing neighbors of opportunity options for mitigating some of the traffic stress. When families need help getting across town to get their kids from school, I would love it if we have adopted grandpa who can go and help knowing that some of these families can't leave their shift work, their hourly jobs to go get those kids with the increased traffic times.

1:15:44I would really love it if you would double down on the my hometown and allow them to be a support to our Westside communities who will increasingly feel cut off from the rest of the city just by virtue of what we need to do here. Additionally, I want to double down on, I hope that we can create a directory of those Westside restaurants.

1:16:04It would be a shame if your people came here and did not experience chungos or Star of India. We have the best food in our parking lots at the Smiths gross restore on the Westside. I would love to be a resource to you in my private work capacity or my public work capacity to make sure that this is a positive experience.

1:16:22But in that vein, and this is a little more delicate, so please hear my heart if my words fail here. To come to an urban context is different. We are not a very urbanized state, even though most of us live in an urban center here. And historically, when people come from outside, the stresses of an urban experience, especially given the dialogues that happen outside of the church and outside of those of us who want to live as good neighbors, kind of dispose them to maybe not enjoying it.

1:16:56Urban centers are viewed as dangerous, as dirty, as other than what is virtuous. I would love your help preparing people to understanding that they are going into an urban context and making the most of it. Maybe before you come, kind of guide something that says, you know, please prepare yourself to not park within one Costco parking lot from where you are going to go.

1:17:22We are going to be walking. And it is okay. Salt Lakers are really excited to welcome you. Something that says if you use that West Side parking lot, you might see someone experiencing a humanitarian crisis. And the city is aware of it and working on it. And the state is aware of it and working on it. And if they ever feel unsafe, here are the resources.

1:17:43And here is what the city is doing. But while we are really excited to welcome people to their spiritual home, they are coming to our literal homes. And even when we are able to put away the political fallout of people complaining to their legislators, it still really hurts my heart. I choose to live in Rose Park. I am raising three children in Rose Park.

1:18:07I think it is the coolest spot in all of Utah. And I really would love it if as people come here, whether they are going just downtown or they are doing the parking ride or they are taking the tracks all the way from Draper all the way up, that we prepare them to actually enjoy this. And I think when I went to the Vatican, I was prepared to see what was great.

1:18:26And look, Rome is not clean. Rome is not safe. But I was going to the Vatican. It had special importance to me. So I am hoping people are predisposed and in a positive head space. But I know that you and I can't control the narratives that get into people's heads and maybe so if we could do something working collaboratively to make sure that people are prepared, to feel safe, to understand what resources are available to them, but to also see the beauty of this experience first and lead out with that, I would love to partner with you in any way possible to do that.

1:19:00Thank you. Thank you so much. You know, the success of this event is the success for Salt Lake City. So thank you so much for being here and your willingness to listen to some of our thoughts and concerns from our neighbors. I am looking forward to more interactions near future. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:19:24Thanks, members. We need to go back to the agenda item and we are a little bit behind. But important conversations happen today. We're going to talk about item number three, but it was number two before. Is it ordinance regarding defense and hedge height text amendments? We're going to welcome Brian Fulmer, Council Policy Analyst, Diana Martinez, Senior Planner, Jason Bernstein, Associate Planner, and John Anderson, Planning Manager.

1:19:59Mr. Chair, this item consists of two text amendments related to fence wall and hedge heights. We don't often have multiple text amendments being briefed together, but these are so closely related that they're being processed at the same time. The first amendment was initiated by the Council in January 2025 and called for increasing the hedge height in front yards to six feet.

1:20:24It also would increase the maximum fence height in back yards to seven feet. The second proposed amendment was initiated by the Planning Commission and it would extend the maximum six foot front yard fence height in the M1 zoning district within the International Center to all properties in the M1 and M1A zoning district's city wide.

1:20:47With that, I'll turn it over to Jason and... Thank you, Brian. All right. I will be going over again what Brian explained in giving some more context to this petition. I will be specifically going over the amendment to change part of the ordinance regarding fence heights and hedges. Next slide, please. Last year, the City Council requested that planning staff research and draft and ordinance text amendment to update the Salt Lake City code regarding fences, walls and hedges.

1:21:25The Council's motion proposed increasing fence heights behind the front of the house from six to seven feet and increasing hedge heights along the side property of front yards from four to six feet except for clear view areas. Based on that, staff drafted some proposed changes and those will be covered in the next few slides.

1:21:41Next slide, please. Currently the code generally allows for four foot tall fences, walls and hedges in front of buildings and six foot tall behind buildings throughout most areas of the city. There are a handful of exceptions including low density residential zones that back up to commercial areas, public utility facilities and recreational facilities among others.

1:22:01There are no changes being requested to these exceptions. Hedges are currently covered under the fence and wall ordinance. Next slide, please. This item was heard by the Planning Commission, so planning staff did increase recommending the fence height behind the front facade to seven feet. Planning commission recommended keeping this fence height to six feet.

1:22:22Another change is the residential and non-residential standards for fences will be combined into a single section as currently there is a lot of redundancy between those two. So that portion will not be changing anything specifically beyond what's mentioned here. It will just be to clean up the code. One change, all mentioned of hedges are proposed to be removed from the ordinance from the fence ordinance and will be regulated under the landscaping chapter.

1:22:47Site distance triangle regulations will still apply. Next slide, please. One of the major changes in this text amendment is to, as mentioned, remove all hedges from the zoning code and just regulate them as landscaping. This means, this does mean that hedges will have no height limit outside of site distance triangle areas and park strips.

1:23:06After review of the code, planning staff determined that the landscaping regulations are appropriate for regulating hedges. The landscaping ordinances require that landscaping not interfere with pedestrian movement, keep a healthy and maintained appearance and be kept free of debris. Planning staff acknowledges the potential of front yards to become enclosed with hedges.

1:23:26However, hedges do provide needed greenery and live vegetation, have positive environmental effects and generally do not create as much of a walled in effect as solid fences and walls. Next slide. And this illustration just shows, in the solid green area, shows where fences and walls are currently restricted to four feet, which will remain the same.

1:23:47And the hatched green area shows where they are currently six feet or would be permitted up to seven feet if council chooses that direction. Next slide. And this graphic just shows our site distance triangle regulations. These will still apply to all fences, walls and hedges and will remain unchanged with this text amendment.

1:24:06Hedges and fences and walls are limited in height or prohibited within these areas to maintain visibility between drivers and pedestrians. Next slide. There's a couple of other clean up changes being proposed. Double frontage lots. Those are lots that have street frontage, two street frontages on opposite sides of a lot, two or more.

1:24:27The double frontage code is being cleaned up as there is a lot of redundant language, but those changes will have no effect on what is permitted. There was also a mention of hedges being appropriate screening for utility boxes. This language is being changed to just say landscaping. Next slide. One commission recommended approval of the removal of hedges from the fence code to allow for limited heights, but did not recommend approving the rear fence height increase to seven feet proposing to keep it at six feet.

1:24:55That is my proposal. I can take questions. Council Member Young. I love the hedge solution. Bless you and thank you. I do think that context, especially for council member Carlson, who wasn't with us when we started this. One of the challenges is where do you define a large bush versus a hedge versus a lot of differentiation within that space.

1:25:28Moving it into terms of landscaping and holding the same standard consistently, I think makes a ton of sense provided that we're not impeding any sort of site needs related to people entering and exiting their driveways. This came up with one of the residents in district seven, mainly specific to the fact that that resident had chosen to build an 80 year in their backyard.

1:25:54They were also using a component of their front yard to be able to create that traditional backyard space. I'm grateful for the solution. You guys are the best. I do think that it creates more clarity also in terms of compliance about when and where we're enforcing some of those earlier conversations. Thank you. Obviously, we are hyper focusing on the MU line manufacturing.

1:26:30I was hoping that some of the work done on the fence height when we were talking about it a year ago, we also applied to residential areas. I think that was really my original intent is to try to get the six foot to seven feet, which matches with national standards for those that choose to go that high on residential site and back offenses for our neighbors.

1:27:06So am I completely off? That was the intent of the legislative action from the council was to look at increasing that backyard fence from six feet to seven feet. That is what planning staff recommended. The planning commission didn't agree with that part of it and recommended keeping it at six feet. But of course, the council is able to do what you see fit.

1:27:34I still feel very strongly about the residential areas. We are identifying, we have a lot of ADUs coming up online. I'm taller than six feet in the morning. But I think that there is a level of a need for privacy and our site and backyards that many of my neighbors are asking. So I think that shouldn't be a strange request.

1:28:06And this doesn't force everybody to change their fences at all. This allow for those that are afraid, this will allow for those that want a little higher fence to be able to do it. So I'm comfortable with that. Any other questions and thoughts? I'm excited to see this coming back to us. Thank you for the work. Mr. Chair, I do have a question that some neighbors brought up.

1:28:35Sorry, I almost forgot. Yes, go ahead. I want to point out that Diana will come up next and talk about the proposed changes in the M1 zones. This is the first part. She'll come up with a second. That helps. That helps. So an organization in my district brought up the issue of the fences for the front. What is the process for an organization like a community space or a nonprofit to ask for higher fences on the front of the yard?

1:29:14Because currently they're hitting a bit of a snuggle in there. Yeah, so currently the ordinance does restrict that to four feet generally, the fences. Diana's ordinance was looking at front yards, but mostly in the M1 zone. Those potentially MU properties, I think this might apply to. There isn't a current pathway just administratively for someone to get a taller fence in their front yard.

1:29:40They could apply for a text amendment to change the regulations for front yards. It could be aimed at potentially the MU zones if that's the zone that they're in. But otherwise there's not an administrative process right now to increase that. I'm interested, you know, not necessarily for individuals, houses, right, but like for, for institutions, right, that they want to protect their buildings, historic building in this case.

1:30:06Or, you know, there are a nonprofit organization and they want to have a taller fence on the front. And so it does make sense to me when I see the building, you know, when I drive by it. But I certainly, you know, there may be some issues there. So the option right now that you're proposing is requesting a text amendment which will apply to everyone after that.

1:30:34It will be like a change in the code across how will you narrow it down. So it's only applicable to certain is there anything similar to that and our code that only applies to, you know, and I'm talking about the art castle. I'm sorry. You know, but like there are multiple organizations in my district that, you know, are in the similar spaces.

1:30:57Potentially could be narrowed to the particular land use on the property versus just universally applying to any potential land use. But I think we need to do a in-depth review of how it might apply and what makes sense. And I think just recognizing that the land use, that once you change it, that fence will remain regardless of what that use is.

1:31:22And so if the use changes and goes back to like a residential use, how do you enforce compliance? Do you enforce compliance? Do you make them take out the fence, lower the fence? So that might be confusing. But would maybe another legislative intent to build on this legislative intent to look at it? I think the problem would persist for this organization because obviously we've seen how long it takes to, you know, do that deep dive into what the potential impacts are.

1:31:53But maybe it's worth looking at. Yeah. And maybe what I need to do is before I'm ready to propose, you know, another legislative intent is to collaborate a little bit with my colleagues here and make sure that we sort of understanding the whole process a little better and then coming back to you with some thoughts. Any other questions?

1:32:14Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. Second part. Thank you. Thank you. Do not leave yet. One more. So this is the second part of the amendment. It does mix because the wording in the proposal would blend. So that's why they're connected. Next slide, please. So just to go back and reiterate what Brian was saying in October of 2024, excuse me, the city council did adopt an ordinance for a fence height increase that affected the M1 only in the Salt Lake International Center.

1:33:11This has come back as of January of 2025. The planning commission initiated this amendment today that we're talking about to allow that same fence height for all M1 and the newly created M1 A zoning district citywide to allow the fence up to six feet. In August of last year, the planning commission voted to send a favorable recommendation to you for this petition, allowing that height increase for the M1 and the M1 A zones to six feet with an additional recommendation that states if any M1 or M1 A zoned property is a button or across, excuse me, is a button or across the street from a zone that allows residential use, then the property is restricted to a max four foot fence in the front setback.

1:34:06That was prompted by the discussion about residential properties along 7th West between 800 South and 1700 South. Next slide, sorry, I was operating my own. Thank you. This map is actually our old map. So as of July 8th, this body adopted the commercial and mixed use zoning district consolidation that took place on October 8th.

1:34:37So as of October 8th, 2025, this map is no longer. However, it does show, you can't see my cursor, but on the right side is 7th West. All of that gray is M1 and then the colored properties along that of the yellow and the pink and the brown, those are all residential properties. So that was what the planning commission was looking at was the effect on those residential properties with that M1.

1:35:11Since October 8th, this is the new map. The purple is shown. Next slide. I'm operating my computer. So sorry, apologies. Next slide, yes. So the purple showing is now the rezoned mixed use properties and those are MU6, which will have to have a four foot front fence. And those, the properties that you can see just to the north of the purple, that is still M1.

1:35:49So those colored properties to the west of those would still be residential, a budding or a cross from. And then to the north across from I-80, there is a couple of properties that would be affected in that amended proposal. And then likewise on the left side of the map, the west side of Redwood Road, there are some M1 still existing that would be a budding residential.

1:36:16Next slide, please. So currently, this is how the text reads that M1 zoned properties in the Salt Lake International Center, M2EI zoning districts can have that six foot fence max in the front yard setback. Next slide, please. And this is showing the brown circle is showing the international center. And then next slide, this is the proposed text as recommended planning commission with that added wording that if it is a budding or next across the street, excuse me from, then it would have to be a maximum of four feet.

1:37:09Any questions? That's it. Yep. Okay. Awesome. Any questions? Okay. We're good. Thank you so much for that was easy. Thank you. Mr. Chair. Yes. I'm pretty sure we're getting into a six, seven discussion. Can we just get clarity from the council on if you support? We think that you're supportive of seven feet for the side and backyard fences, but can we just confirm that if that's accurate?

1:37:39Looks like it is. Thank you. Thank you. That's good. Good direction. Thank you so much. Thank you for the joke. I needed that. I, this concludes the agenda items, but there is reports from Chair and Mr. Chair. No reports here. Announcements from the executive director. No announcements from the executive director. And we don't have a close meeting.

1:38:09So this does adjourned the meeting. Thank you, all of you for your patience and the work. Thank you.